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Giants Stuck in Between a Rock and a Hard Place

When the first reports came out last summer that Giants all time sack leader Michael Strahan was mulling retirement, Big Blue nation went into panic mode when pondering the thought of losing their best offensive player in Tiki Barber and their best defensive player in Strahan in the same offseason.  Coming off a disappointing 8-8 season that was followed by a lackluster free agency period, the thoughts of doom and gloom expanded at the mere image of a Giants defensive line without #92 on the left end.  The anxiety was a daily topic throughout the entire 2007 training camp no matter who you talked to and a year later, we find ourselves in a similar but not identical boat.  Here we are approaching the second week of May and we have yet to find out what his plans are for this season despite reports that he was going to hand in his decision in March, and then early April, and then before the draft, and now we are hoping for a mini-camp deadline.  While Strahan "ironically" not making his decision until right after the preseason camp was over did not hamper our year, can we afford to go through this every year?

The benefit the Giants have here is the versatility across the board along our defensive front.  Justin Tuck is more than capable of playing that left end spot that needs to be stout against the run but at the same time able to disrupt the opposing air game.  We also have Mathias Kiwanuka, a third year veteran that I am still under the impression will be moved back to his natural spot in the trenches no matter what happens with Strahan.  He gives Spags more options to work with in terms of packages and schemes on third downs and the always needed depth at arguably the most vital position on our defense.  Those two in addition to Osi Umenyiora and the underrated Dave Tollefson would allow this defense to excel without Strahan and it was proved last year.  The difference in mindsets here is night and day from what we went through a year ago.

The glaring issue is this.  The Giants were incredibly lenient with Strahan last year by letting him chill out in the California sun while the team was hard at work in the humidity of Albany, New York.  Despite the fact he was not with his teammates he was welcomed back with open arms and while I was not against it at the time, this cannot become a habit.  Sure he has meant more than words can describe to this organization for more than a decade but who should we allow to sit out from training camp in the future if this becomes a trend with Strahan?  A deadline should be put in place here for his decision but then there might be some extra hostility within a franchise that banked on being a cohesive unit all the way to the Super Bowl.  It looks like a lose-lose scenario and the solution is beyond me.

Antonio Pierce says Strahan is done and Amani Toomer says Strahan is coming back.  It is all speculation at this point because lets be honest, #92 himself has yet to figure it out.  While I respect his decision making process, there needs to be a more cut and dry process set in place within the coming months.  I would say that deadline should be put in place prior to training camp so we are not playing catch up early September like we were in 2007.  While the anxiety is not what it was last year, the importance is on the same level in my book.  I love what this guy has brought to table year after year but he is not bigger than the team and he has 2 and a half months to make his final choice. 

Syvertsen

Comments

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EggShen said:

Hey does this guy look familiar?

www.sportsline.com/.../10813958

May 7, 2008 12:38 AM
 

csherm32 said:

Who thinks we will be better off without Strahan?  I'm not sure if Strahan returning would hold back Tuck and Kiwi from going from good to great players for our defense.  But I also think Strahan has a lot left in him.

May 7, 2008 1:44 AM
 

Krow said:

At his age he can skip training camp.  He has the credentials, and the DE position is easier to work around in drills.  However I'd be hard pressed to make that case for anyone else.  The players who need the reps most of all are rookies and those coming off injury.  Looking at you Shockey.

May 7, 2008 6:20 AM
 

The Original G Man said:

Nice column on Coughlin:

www.nytimes.com/.../06coughlin.html

(Interesting that Tom appears to be a big fan of Michael Jennings ... that throws a bit of a monkey wrench into things)

May 7, 2008 7:33 AM
 

Terrence T said:

why hasnt he decided yet...i mean i love the guy but hasnt he had time to figure out what hes gonna do

May 7, 2008 7:44 AM
 

The Original G Man said:

USA Today is out with their NFL Power Rankings today:

www.usatoday.com/.../2008-05-06-power-rankings_N.htm

1. New England

2. NY Giants Notes: Really no superstars, but burgeoning depth is impressive. (Five first-place votes.)

Giants received more first place votes than any other team btw

May 7, 2008 7:45 AM
 

The Original G Man said:

I think Strahan is coming back.  He'll "decide" midway through training camp.  Wink, wink ...

May 7, 2008 7:46 AM
 

wr45171 said:

I agree he should be given some time....but come on..this is a bit rediculous.....  we see it EVERY year from other players around the league...

I wouldnt mind the league stepping in and taking games/money from these guys that way it takes some of the strain off the franchises themselves...Im sure this will never happen but I grow tired of hearing the same song and dance every year. ala brett favwray!!

May 7, 2008 7:47 AM
 

Krow said:

I think that missing training camp at the end of an illustrious career is "professional courtesy".  However first you have to do something like this...

6 All-Pro selections (1997, 1998, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005)

7 Pro Bowl selections (1997, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005)

NFL Defensive Player of the Year (2001)

Twice NFC Defensive Player of the Year (2001, 2003)

Most sacks in single season (22.5)

Super Bowl champion (XLII)

May 7, 2008 8:12 AM
 

jimDB said:

Team leader, holding out and returning after a mediocre 8-8 season, does not weigh the same as team leader holding out after a SB season. To many no name, few pro bowlers but talented athletic players working hard will create animosity, and drag the "TEAM" down. Stray needs to make a decision, In or Out? Fans will luv your decision.

May 7, 2008 8:13 AM
 

BillyS said:

I honestly don't care about Strahan participating in training camp. He actually seemed more fresh without it last year, and the whole "professional courtesy" won't upset the other players in my eyes, because they know what Strahan has done.

However, what irks me is his decision to even play in the first place. A yes or a no, that's all I want. If it's a yes then we'll plug his name in, but if not then at least open up the roster spot for another guy... that's what annoys me.

May 7, 2008 8:46 AM
 

The Original G Man said:

I don't care if he doesn't come to camp either. He's clearly a special case ... a guy who is at the end of a HOF career but still capable of performing at a high level.  Like many others I'm sure, I wondered last year if his holdout wasn't a reason why he was able to keep it going like that last year.

May 7, 2008 8:54 AM
 

Kyoshi said:

Krow - Isn't that a change in opinion fro a year ago?

May 7, 2008 9:15 AM
 

Krow said:

Kyoshi.. yes.  The reason is because I thought he'd be a disruptive force.  In fact he turned out just the opposite.  And was a big part of the positive locker room chemistry that brought us a Superbowl.  

I was proven wrong last year.

May 7, 2008 9:21 AM
 

Kyoshi said:

Krow - I'm not trying to bust your ass. I think highly of your commentary but, this is what you were saying in August:

"As for Strahan… he needs the money. He’ll give a half-hearted effort for a year or two. Next stop… IR."

May 7, 2008 9:22 AM
 

Levito said:

Bears cut Adam Archuleta.

May 7, 2008 9:25 AM
 

Krow said:

Kyoshi... and yes, I honestly thought that would be the case.  We were a rebuilding team in my mind; a couple years away.  And he did not figure to be part of that.

Happily events proved me wrong.  Now we're the defending champs.  Strahan was a leader in 2007.

I'm happy I was mistaken.

May 7, 2008 9:26 AM
 

Kyoshi said:

Krow - I agree and I felt the same way last year.  Sometimes it's good to be proven wrong.  I'm not 100% sure how I feel this year.  Sonner or later he has to go and maybe at this point he's holding back Tuck or Kiwi.  What do you think?

May 7, 2008 9:26 AM
 

Kyoshi said:

Levito - Why? Lovey wanted him so bad for a while.

May 7, 2008 9:28 AM
 

Krow said:

That could be the case... but since we didn't get a DL in the draft I'd like one more year.  Especially with Kiwi's uncertainty.  Next year Strahan goes off to his broadcasting career... we add a pick at DE... life goes on.  And it's not like he had a bad year.  If he was a rookie we'd be ecstatic.

May 7, 2008 9:30 AM
 

Krow said:

Also too... I though Strahan's divorce had him completely mind-f'ucked.  It was a mess... she said he was gay... sold his "stuff' at a garage sale... took off with $15 mil.  I still don't see how he put all that behind him and played as well as he did.

May 7, 2008 9:33 AM
 

Kyoshi said:

Krow - Mushin.  Either that or he visualized anyone he hit was his ex-wife.

May 7, 2008 9:36 AM
 

Kyoshi said:

Krow - I guess I agree.  He'll be a leader and a mentor on the D.  I feel the same way about Sam Madison.... I think he can teach the young guys a lot, even if his play isn't where it once was.

May 7, 2008 9:38 AM
 

Bartman said:

Levito:

Of course they did - cause he SUCKS!  He's one of the most overrated players in the league.  I'd take Butler over him in a second.  

May 7, 2008 9:40 AM
 

Kyoshi said:

Bartman - I mostly agree but they wanted him so bad and Lovey knew him.

May 7, 2008 9:41 AM
 

Levito said:

I wouldn't say he sucks, just that the Bears didn't know how to use him.  He's a SS, and he's along the same lines as Roy Williams.  Big hitter, great run stopper, complete liability in coverage.  Versus Butler, it's a toss up for me.  Butler is younger and (slightly) better against the pass.  Archuleta is better against the run.  Archuleta tackles better than Butler, but that's not saying much.  I'd say Butler, but mainly because he's younger and cheaper.

May 7, 2008 9:56 AM
 

Syvertsen56 said:

So I guess some of you are sending the following message:

Perform well here on the  field and you don't have to come to training camp anymore.  

My quesion then is this...where do you draw the line on performances that can and cannot allow you to miss training camp?

May 7, 2008 10:07 AM
 

fanfor55years said:

I was right about almost everything I said about this team last year, but I was SO-O-O-O wrong about Strahan it was ridiculous. I thought Reese should have traded him for two draft picks. My reasoning was that while I thought the Giants were a great young team on the rise, and would win a Super Bowl in 2010, I thought that by the time they got to that point Strahan would be retired so the Giants should get some value for him while he could still give two good years to another team that was on the verge of the Super Bowl in 2007. Brilliant call by me.

Now perhaps I will be wrong in the other direction. Krow put up all Strahan's honors up above, but it goes beyond that. He is, without question in my mind, the best defensive end of his era. He isn't just a HOFer, he's one of the greats of all time on the defensive line. Not only that, he played at a very high level last season and remains a team leader who has immense respect in the locker room. So if he wants to come back I'd take him on his terms for one more year. If I were Reese I would say "Look Michael, I'll pay you well and give you the chance to go out as a repeat Super Bowl Champion. You and I both know that's a reasonable possibility because we'll be better than we were last season. But I need one thing from you. I don't want to come out of the starting gate 0-2 this year and we both know it took you three games to get in game shape last season. Just promise me you'll come in with a few pre-season games left and play your way into shape by giving me a half of each of those games."

If Strahan would do that I'd be a very happy camper. He deserves special consideration that no other Giant can rationally command. He's a unique case: an all-time great who can still play at a very high level, who has played his entire career in New York, and remains an emotional leader in the locker room and on the sideline as well as in the huddle.

Will the Giants collapse without him? No, but they won't be as good.

May 7, 2008 10:13 AM
 

The Original G Man said:

Dave ... i don't think that's an honest characterization of what we're saying. Strahan's credentials are in a different zip code from every player on this team. If I'm Jerry Reese and one of my players wants to come back at me with your line of reasoning, I'd tell them "Go out become one of the truly all time great at your position, and THEN we'll talk."    

May 7, 2008 10:54 AM
 

Krow said:

Strahan had all the intangibles covered too.  He's in a one-of-a-kind situation.  There's no side effects on any other players.  Ironically the only one who could rise to this status would be Shockey.  However he'd have to play several more years... and get a brain transplant.

May 7, 2008 11:01 AM
 

HOSS7227 said:

Syvertsen56, you draw the line with a HOFer.

May 7, 2008 11:15 AM
 

Mike V said:

I know one thing for sure...Strahan was not in "football shape" in the beginning of the season when we lost to Dallas and Green Bay.  I certainly don't want Strahan not in football shape when we kick things off against Washington this year.

I love the guy, and I never wanted the Giants to trade him last year, but at the very least he's gotta be ready to go when the regular season kicks off.

May 7, 2008 11:18 AM
 

Syvertsen56 said:

So if Eli Manning, in say 8-9 years, has 3 Super Bowl trophies and a couple MVP awards, is he allowed to stop coming to training camp?

May 7, 2008 12:41 PM
 

sp24334 said:

I have to say i am with Dave on this one. My coach always used to say you earned your victories during summer 2 a days and during the week. You have your fun on Saturdays.

While Strahan can have a Veteran camp (not do anything if he so chooses) he must at least show up and ride the bike / shoot the *** with Spags ect...

May 7, 2008 1:03 PM
 

TroyThorne said:

Dave - I don't see the big deal to be honest. Why do you care so much? Is Strahan really going to get anything out of training camp other than some cardio work? Even that would be suspect at best.

If a 36/37 year old veteran who is a sure fire HOFer and one of the greatest defensive players at his position wants to take some more time to decide his entire future, I'd say he's earned it. It's not a big deal at all and I think you're blowing it out of proportion to be honest. Everyone wants to talk about this "ripple effect" but no player is stupid enough to compare themselves to Strahan and ask to miss camp. It's just not going to happen (Shockey is a possibility because of all this drama but other than him...).

I just don't see the big deal in all this. He wants some time to decide what he's going to do for the rest of his life. He's earned some time in my opinion. It's not like he's the first (or last) player to ever skip camp.

Eli is a different case because he's the starting QB and has to build some chemistry with the young guys, go over the playbook, etc. It's really not comparable to DE.

May 7, 2008 1:26 PM
 

Krow said:

Yep...

May 7, 2008 1:48 PM
 

sp24334 said:

True QB and DE are very different but there is still some level of control that you have to have over your players even HOFers. I mean sure there is not likely to be a ripple effect but this is the second year he has done this. You cant have him missing camp every year its not right. Maybe he could have a special schedule ect. but he should at least be there with his teammates.

May 7, 2008 2:21 PM
 

Bartman said:

Dave:

there's a HUGE difference between the starting QB and a DE.  Now I'm not saying I like it, but if it means being without Strahan and putting up with his absence from camp, I'd choose the latter.  But I agree to a point, it sends a dangerous message to the rest of the team.  Now I wonder if some sort of a compromise would be possible, maybe let him miss the first half of camp, but come half way through.  That way he'd be in better football shape than he was at the start of this past season, but still gave his body a bit of a break.  

May 7, 2008 2:40 PM
 

HOSS7227 said:

If Manning wins 3 SB's, I dont think anyone would care if he missed camp or preseason just as long as he's there for the opener. But, I wouldnt worry, Eli is wired that way.

May 7, 2008 2:40 PM
 

HOSS7227 said:

*is not wired...

May 7, 2008 2:41 PM
 

Bartman said:

Oh, and if Eli has 3 Super Bowl trophies by then, I wont care, and I can die a happy man - LOL.  

May 7, 2008 2:42 PM
 

HOSS7227 said:

exactly

May 7, 2008 2:43 PM
 

HOSS7227 said:

Dave what are the chances one of our new players gets ol' #21?

May 7, 2008 2:44 PM
 

Syvertsen56 said:

Ok...

So now we need to set parameters for how productive you are on the field, and then we need to set more parameters for the position you play.  What's next?  The amount of games missed due to injury?  The amount your paid?  The jersey number you wear?

The point is that ironically making your final decision right after training camp 2 years in a row would be absurd.  Sure we did not get slapped across the face with those 2 horrid defensive performances early in the year in the grand scheme of things, but what if we ended up missing the playoffs by one game?

Strahan needs to show up to our week one contest in top shape.  He does not need to go through the 2 a days week in and week out during August but he should at the very least be there so we can monitor his workouts.

May 7, 2008 2:55 PM
 

Syvertsen56 said:

Hoss-

We will find out within the next couple of days, I think the Giants will put that off for another couple years.

May 7, 2008 2:56 PM
 

hkiswani said:

Dave -

We're talking about a guy that's been a sure thing at DE for the organization for 15+ years, a first-ballot hall of fame guy, a guy that gave everything he had to the New York Giants, and a guy that is STILL playing at a VERY high level.

I think I can deal with him missing camp to come back and give us another year of his caliber play at defensive end. He's not just another guy on the roster - and I think the other players on this roster certainly understand that. When you go to as many pro-bowls as Mike did and give us 15 years of what he's given us, then you can take your time deciding on your future.  

It's really not a big deal. The first two weeks of last season weren't solely because Michael Strahan wasn't in "top shape". It was a new defensive system, featuring three new starters in the back seven, including a guy who was a defensive end making the transition to linebacker.

May 7, 2008 3:10 PM
 

HOSS7227 said:

Dave, I'm not saying MS should do what he did last year, but he wll get a little leeway. If he doesn't retire, i do want/hope he shows up in better gameshape than last year.

I would like to see Phillips or Thomas in #21.

May 7, 2008 3:21 PM
 

Bartman said:

Lets face it - this is a moot point - you know the brass isn't going to issue Strahan some ultimatum or draw a line in the sand - if Strahan decides before week 1 he wants to play, he'll play.  This is almost certianly his last season, and that's not how the NY Giants want one of their all time greats to end his relationship with the team.  

May 7, 2008 3:30 PM
 

jamestown456 said:

Another Miami safety with #21?

May 7, 2008 3:36 PM
 

HOSS7227 said:

It would be only the 2nd one.

May 7, 2008 3:48 PM
 

Syvertsen56 said:

Haz-

So then answer my questions.  Where do you draw the line?  You realize that if we allow Strahan to make a habit out of this, policies need to be set in place for the players on our roster that are headed to Canton.

He should get his butt to Albany no matter what.  He doesn't have to go through each workout/practice but his lack of presence sends the wrong message.

May 7, 2008 4:00 PM
 

Syvertsen56 said:

And the "Strahan is a sure thing" argument is weak.

Hall of famer Harry Carson....how many training camps did he need tp ponder his retirement?

May 7, 2008 4:05 PM
 

TroyThorne said:

Dave - You're really overreacting to be honest. This is a non-issue that you're trying to turn into a big deal. Want parameters? Bust your ass for 15 years. Case closed.

May 7, 2008 4:07 PM
 

hkiswani said:

Dave -

How often is it that you have a guy play for the same team for 15 years, play at an extremely high level, and be a sure-fire HOFer?

Fact is, this is not a common situation, and in these situations you just are forced to do things differently. I think the players in the locker room are rational enough to know that.

No need to draw any line in this situation - because this is really a rare case we have here.

May 7, 2008 4:08 PM
 

DEMO3356 said:

Syvertsen56 said:

So if Eli Manning, in say 8-9 years, has 3 Super Bowl trophies and a couple MVP awards, is he allowed to stop coming to training camp?

Dave-if Eli brings us 2 more SB rings he can spend every  training camp in the Bahamas for all I'll care.

As far as Strahan goes- i am fine with him doing what he is doing. he is one of the greatest Giants ever and has earned some leeway.As far as anyone else goes they can do the same thing at the end of their 15 year hall of fame career too.

May 7, 2008 4:14 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

Hate to be self-referential, but Haz and dave, why don't you look at my imagined conversation between Reese and Strahan in my comment above? I think we could all agree that Strahan is a unique case (an all-time great in the trenches who takes immense physical punishment every year and over 15 years has worn down enough that he knows he has to conserve strength if he's to be effective by the time the playoffs come around; and who can still play at a very high level and help the team) and that he should figure out how to be in football shape by the time the Redskins game comes around. So why not allow him to come in with 2-3 weeks left in pre-season and work his way to 90% before that opening game? Strahan at 90% would play about half the snaps with Tuck and Kiwi taking the rest at DE. It would be a great rotation and everyone would be happy.

May 7, 2008 4:17 PM
 

Terrence T said:

if eli wins 2 more sbs i dont care where the heck he goes! lol....seriously im wit you Dave on this arguement. by doin this stunt again, its like hes makin himself out to be bigger than the team. no good. if hes this unsure then he should give it up in my opinion. love the guy and think hes great but come on. its annoying

May 7, 2008 4:19 PM
 

Brian said:

Well put 55 but less then "2-3 weeks left in the pre-season"

May 7, 2008 4:24 PM
 

Brian said:

but no less then (sorry)

May 7, 2008 4:25 PM
 

DEMO3356 said:

i think ff55yrs hit the nail on the head as usual

May 7, 2008 4:28 PM
 

hkiswani said:

ff55y -

That would be just fine with me.

May 7, 2008 4:32 PM
 

GIANTT said:

As all us Oldies know - The spirit is willing , but the flesh is weak-I think that Strahans stamina is the key factor - If he cant play for as long as he used to , why not let him conserve energy by not wasting it in preseason ?

 Last season , how many games did it take for him to play himself into shape 3 or 4 ? If he had come to camp and played in all preseason games and started out the season playing well or better than he did , thats  great - but what if  his downside was in the last few games and the playoffs etc ?

I know which I would rather have had , the situation the way it was , with him having game to play late in the season - Not the other way round .

I know someone will say that , how do we know he would have only been able to play for a certain amount of games - WE DONT - but I bet Strahan had a good idea , and perhaps thats one explanation of the way things worked out

May 7, 2008 4:34 PM
 

Syvertsen56 said:

I'm sorry but I come from the school of thought that no player is bigger than the team.

That is a huge reason why the Colts and Pats are where they are year after year.  The thing that troubles me is the fact that winning the Super Bowl blinds some from the issues that are at hand.  

May 7, 2008 4:39 PM
 

fanfor55years said:

Dave, you're starting to sound like Ahab, obsessed with the White Whale.

Don't you think that the Pats gave special consideration to Seau last year? And didn't they make special rules for Bruschi?

I think you're missing what a lot of us are suggesting: that allowing Strahan to avoid too much expenditure of energy in pre-season is good for the team as much as it is for the player. And if you accept that premise might it not be far more demoralizing to have Strahan hanging around camp and not participating in drills and two-a-days than it would be just having him absent?

I usually think you make well thought-out points but I have to say you seem somewhat irratio